MR. RUSSERT: One issue where the Democrats seem to be changing their thinking is abortion. Here's Howard Dean on April 17: "I think we need to talk about abortion differently... Republicans have forced us into a corner to defend abortion..." And then, April 21: "If I could strike the words `choice' and `abortion' out of the lexicon of our party, I would."
DR. DEAN: Absolutely. I'm not advocating we change our position. [H.D., 5/22/05: “Democrats have strong moral values.”] I believe that a woman has a right to make up her own mind about [whether or not to have sex?] what kind of health care she gets [including contraceptives and birth control?], and I think Democrats believe that in general. Here's the problem – and we were outmanipulated by the Republicans [so you admit you tried to manipulate people?], there's no question about it.
We have been forced into the idea of "we're going to defend abortion." I don't know anybody who thinks abortion is a good thing. I don't know anybody in either party who is pro-abortion. [H.D., 5/22/05: “I hate the dishonesty, you know. I will use whatever position I have in order to root out hypocrisy.”] The issue is not whether we think abortion is a good thing. The issue is whether a woman has a right to make up her own mind about her health care, or a family has a right to make up their own mind about how their loved ones leave this world. [So being “pro-choice” – a label created by liberal democrats – doesn’t solely concern abortion rights? If I support a woman’s right to get her chronic back pain treated at the Cleveland Clinic, I’m politically pro-choice?] I think the Republicans are intrusive and they invade people's personal privacy, and they don't have a right to do that. [Huh? Any evidence? Mr. Dean, you just throw around conspiracy theories and act as though they’re solid facts. If you’re referring to Terry Schiavo, remember that her family begged and pleaded for those who represent them to take action. Again, the doctrine of checks and balances – not the Gestapo – is what Republicans in Congress implemented.]
Let me tell you why I think we ought to--why I want to strike the words "abortion" and "choice." When I campaigned for this job, I talked to lots of Democrats. And there are significant numbers of pro-life Democrats in the South. And one lady said to me, you know, "I'm pro-life. I don't like abortion. I would never have one. I would hope my daughter would never have one. But, you know, if the lady next door got herself in a fix, I'm not sure I should be the one to tell her what to do." [Then she’s not pro-life.] Now, we call that woman pro-choice, but she [incorrectly] thinks of herself as pro-life. The minute we start with the "pro-choice, pro- choice, pro-choice," she says, "Well, that's not me." [Again, Democrats created the label to euphemize the term “pro-abortion.”]
But when you talk about framing this debate the way it ought to be framed, which is "Do you want Tom DeLay [name-dropper] and the boys [sexist remark] to make up your mind about this, or does a woman have a right to make up her own mind about what kind of health care she gets," then that pro-life woman says, "Well, now, you know, I've had people try to make up my mind for me and I don't think that's right." [H.D., 5/22/05: “Democrats have strong moral values.”] This is an issue about who gets to make up their minds: the politicians or the individual. [Actually, no it’s not. ONLY the U.S. Supreme Court can ever make abortion illegal. Not “Tom Delay and the boys.”] Democrats are for the individual. We believe in individual rights [to have an abortion]. We believe in personal freedom [to decide whether or not to have an abortion] and personal responsibility [except with the decision to have unprotected sex]. And that debate is one that we didn't win, because we kept being forced into the idea of defending the idea of abortion. [Maybe because you’re in denial that it’s what pro-choice really means – and that most Americans know it.] We'd like to make abortion rare. You know that abortions have gone up 25 percent since George Bush was president? [According to what source? Surely you at least have a source for this, right? Is this another unidentified “medical analysis” you read recently?]
[And if Democrats are such champions for individual rights and responsibilities, why are they so opposed to the option of personal/private Social Security accounts?]
MR. RUSSERT: But...
DR. DEAN: We need to reduce the number of abortions in this country. There is common ground between us and pro-life Democrats, and we ought to find that common ground. [A good start is not denying the real issue.]
MR. RUSSERT: But, Governor, the problem for Democrats has been that many request abortion on demand. When there are attempts to say that there should be parental notification for children under 18-- to be notified with a judicial bypass, if there's a spouse--a parental abuse situation. Many Democrats oppose it. Third-trimester abortion, "partial-birth" abortion, Democrats opposed it.
DR. DEAN: Tim... […rules.]
MR. RUSSERT: President Clinton vetoed it. Every time there's a vote to restrict abortion, the majority of the Democrats seem to vote against it.
DR. DEAN: Tim, first of all, President Clinton vetoed the third-term – late-term-abortion ban because the Republicans refused to make an exception for the health and the lifeof the mother. [Bush has campaigned, since day one, that’s he’s pro-life except when dealing with rape, incest or life of the mother. That is not radically different from most other Congressional Republicans.] Now, it – I don't think that there is an ethical doctor in America who will do a third-term abortion without there being a reason like the health and life of the mother. [Not an ethical doctor, but plenty of doctors who do it. That’s the point, Mr. Dean. It’s unethical, yet your party staunchly defends it.] I don't think it's ethical to do third-term abortions, unless – just to save the health and the life of the mother. I don't think that's unreasonable. [Then why does the rest of your party?] Shouldn't this be a realm where doctors and women make up their minds instead of politicians? [It’s always a woman’s decision whether or not she’s dying from birth complications?] What do politicians know about practicing medicine? Not very many of us have an MD. [Spoken like a smug elitist. The Senate majority leader (R) has one, though.]
MR. RUSSERT: Well, the – but several heads of the American Medical Association endorsed banning third-term abortions because they said life of the mother is one thing but the health is a much different issue. It can be defined in so many different ways, it was a major loophole.
DR. DEAN: You know what I'd prefer to see, frankly? I'd prefer to see medical practice boards around the country, state by state – because people do believe different things about this in different states. I'd prefer to see medical practice boards around the country set ethical guidelines for abortion. [Smooth evasion of the implicit question.] I don't have a problem with that. You know, I don't know of people who do third-term abortions without a moral reason for doing it, which is to save the health and life of the mother. So let them set some ethical guidelines. But I think this debate ought to get out of the realm of having politicians standing up and grandstanding. [Wow, Mr. Dean, did you actually just describe a policy idea? Only took 3/4 of the interview to get there.]
It is an incredibly difficult area. It is an area which is conflicted. I don't know anybody who ever had an abortion who feels, "Oh, boy, this is just great. I can't wait to have another one." [Ask Susan Estrich and Planned Parenthood, who sold and promoted t-shirts last summer that read, “I had an abortion.”] That's not what this is about. This is a very difficult, horrible choice. [Hence, pro-choice.] Does the government make that choice or does the individual make that choice? [To have unprotected sex?] There are ethical constraints around the issue of abortion. There is no question about that. I think those ought to be done state by state. And I think doctors ought to have a lot more say about it than they do now. [Dangerously close to more actual policy proposals.]
MR. RUSSERT: Both parties have tried to use it politically.
DR. DEAN: I agree with that, and I think that's unfortunate. I think it is time now for pro-life Americans and pro-choice Americans or Americans who believe in individual freedom to get together [standing up or sitting down?], and we have common ground. The common ground is we'd all like to reduce the number of abortions. But put aside the rhetoric, the difficulty and let's work to reduce the number of abortions. [Pssst! Mr. Dean! Tell your party!] That's something we can agree on. I don't think we're going to get there with abstinence-only education. I don't think we're going to get there if we condemn contraceptions or condom use [in elementary schools, you mean?] and all that kind of thing. But let's see what common ground that we have. There are a lot of very reasonable Americans who call themselves pro-life. [Are there really?] There are a lot of very reasonable Americans who believe in individual choice and personal responsibility. [They’re called pro-life.] I think we can work together. There are not many of us who want to see the abortion rate continue to go up as it has under President Bush. [Subtle attack. Again, where is your source for this? Not even a reference?]
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